An updated story on problems associated with enforcing the state smoking ban is available here: Smoking Ban Enforcement and Information Problems

On December 18, 2009, Governor Granholm signed a smoking ban bill into law. This new law, called the Dr. Ron Davis Law, will be put into action on May 1, 2010. The Dr. Ron Davis Law will officially ban smoking throughout the state of Michigan. Smoking will be banned in all public places including workplaces, restaurants, and bars. This law even goes as far as to ban smoking on the patios of restaurants.

The bill defines all the terms used and also describes specific measures that must be taken in order for this law to be properly carried out. For example, there are sections describing what a valid attempt by company owners to prohibit individuals from smoking would be. One of these sections explains that the owner of the public place must post no smoking signs.

Along with the original language of the law, there are two major exceptions. One exception is for cigar bars and tobacco specialty retail stores. Both businesses must file an affidavit with the department, and after approval, they are allowed to permit smoking of only cigars in the cigar bar, or in the retail store customers are allowed to smoke. The bill contains specific definitions of cigar bars or retail stores and the actions that must be taken in order to be considered one of either type of establishment. The second exception is for casinos. The bill states that casinos which have been established before the date that the bill takes place are permitted to allow smoking in the gaming area of the casino only. But, casinos established after May 1, 2010 are not allowed to permit smoking. A clause in this bill exempts casinos that are operating under the Indian gaming regulatory act.

The end of the first part of the bill defines the penalties for not complying with the Dr. Ron Davis Law. These penalties mostly include fines for the businesses, no more than 100 for the first offense and no more than 500 for the second offense.

The bill contains a second part related specifically to food service establishments. Absolutely no smoking is allowed in these establishments, including those attached to a mall. The bill also contains a clause stating that food industries are not permitted to discriminate against employees who choose to smoke.

Currently, there are twenty four states that have a state wide ban on smoking much like the ban Michigan will be putting into action in May. Of the remaining states, twelve have some anti-smoking laws whether it is that smoking is banned in restaurants, bars, in non-hospitality workplaces or any combination of the three. This leaves thirteen states that have no statewide ban whatsoever. The thirteen states that have no statewide ban simply rely on the Clean Indoor Air Act to restrict smoking. The Clean Indoor Air Act in a very broad set of laws specific to each state that restricts smoking in indoor workplaces and schools. These states do however restrict smoking further by county. For example, Texas has no statewide ban but many of its individual counties have a ban on smoking in restaurants or bars along with numerous other places.

With this new and strict ban on smoking, there could be many implication issues involved. Not only will it be a major adjustment for this state to change its smoking habits, but there will now be extra costs and effort necessary for restaurant and bar owners. For example, if a customer is smoking, a bar or restaurant owner must ask that person to stop smoking and eventually ask them to leave the restaurant. This can lose the restaurant future business from that customer, or if the owner chooses not to take this action, the restaurant could be fined by the Michigan government.

Retail tobacco stores and cigar bars will now have a lot of extra paperwork to go through in order to maintain their current smoking policies. Both the retail tobacco stores and the cigar bars must complete paperwork every year and are subject to provide further documentation to ensure that the establishment meets the requirements laid out in the bill. This extra paper work requires a lot of time on the store owners part, especially considering that none of this was necessary when the store first opened.

Casinos do not suffer a lot of implementation issues. Restaurants and non-gaming areas must become non-smoking but this does not require a lot of work on the part of the casino. If someone is smoking outside the gaming area all they would have to do is step back in the gaming area and since the casino already employs security guards, these employees could easily ask customers to smoke only in the gaming area. Casinos established after May 1, 2010 will be unable to allow smoking anywhere. They will not have to change the rules of their casino, nor add anything minus a few no smoking signs.

Many American citizens smoke, but most tend to smoke more at social events; either when they are drinking, going out to eat with friends, or doing one of many activities that takes place inside a public place. It has become habit for many people to pull out a cigarette at a bar and light it up or to request the smoking section at a restaurant.

Although this bill only affects those living in Michigan, there are still many people who portray the habits of a true smoker. Not only are there the everyday smokers but some people have picked up the habit of smoking socially. These people only smoke when they are out with friends. For both groups of people, not being able to smoke when out at a restaurant, bowling, at a bar, or walking through a casino means that for a majority of their day, depending on their lifestyle, they cannot smoke. Social smokers will be forced to quit smoking and everyday smokers will be forced to cut back on their daily amount of cigarettes. Although the long term effects will be extremely beneficial to Michigan and its citizens, forcing people to cut back on smoking is going to be more difficult that the government realizes. Habit is a hard thing to break, especially when dealing with people who have no desire to stop smoking.

Sources:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2009-2010/billenrolled/House/pdf/2009-HNB-4377.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States

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Retired
written by Thomas Laprade, February 05, 2010

Smoking ban makes owners and citizens potential criminals

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Votes: +38

Citizen enforcement
written by KC, February 22, 2010

You mentioned that this law has citizen involvement in its enforcement, yet you don't mention what is involved in that. Can you give more details?

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Votes: +10

its not about our health, its about big government
written by Kevin, February 26, 2010

This ban is just another small step for Michigan to join up with the rest of the socialistic government agenda. Most republicans disagree with these bans, its mostly a Democratic push to test the will of the American people as to see how far they can go by taking away one liberty at a time before its sheeple realize whats happened and that they can get away with it because we dont have a democracy anymore and just let Governments do what they want. It will in fact get worse. These so called "bans" are justified in a socialistic mind as a health hazard, but the REAL agenda these polititians have is to extend its control. Behavioral modeling. Mostly all states enacting these bans are Democratic states. Shadows Waxman (Democrat Chair)at the house during the voting on 2454, which he wrote, did not even know what was in his own bill as he stated. They try to hide their agenda through misinformation and inflated numbers and telling the republicans that the amendment was accessible online 4 hours before the vote was needed, how very curious, they did not want anyone to read the bill because of all the scary micromanagement powers granted to the feds to regulate construction of new homes. Wake up michigan! Stop letting our governments choose what is healthy and not healthy, give the people their power back! BTW, Ron Davis died from pancreatic cancer at 52, perhaps he shouldve been searching for a cure rather than complaining his life away. Not that his anti-smoking advocacy helped him anyways. The democratic states are also doing this in justification of lower medicare cost, medicare being a program THEY made and screwed over all the states budgets in doing so. 20% of state budgets go to medicaid.....so they decided to tax cigarettes and smokers more for their screwball idea and to top it off now since that didnt work they try to get people to just quit to cut medicaid costs, and it didnt work over in cali, why would it work here?....the feds and states are the reason we are in this crap, not the american people.

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Votes: +41

Former Bar Owner in Ohio
written by Bill Manley, February 27, 2010

This is as bad if not worse than want happened in Ohio. We have had the ban in effect here for several years .The year it came into effect the state lost so much money from bars going out of business that tnhey are now complain abojut the cost of enforcing the law is much high than the fines they collect.
I owned a bar that had been in business since 1943 and within six months of the law going into effect my business was down 60% . We strungle for 13 months and had to close the doors.At the that time there where 6-7 bars in a our county that closed. Our liquer lincense costed each of us 2500 dollar a year not to mention the sales taxes and other fees we had.I live in Richland County which is not that big so the jobs,taxes, and other income this ban will effect is alot bigger than you relize.The bussiness that supply the bars have had to cut employees or closed clear down themselves.
If this law is going to effect your business you should watch what were going through here. This law is unconstitutional and we are winning the fight here it is just taking time and some of us just couldnt make it long enough to benifit from the hard work some of us are doing to overturn parts of the law.
Please dont let the government overstep what they were designed to do.
Bill Manley
Former owner of
The Punchbowl Tavern
Mansfiel Ohio

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Votes: +48

economy
written by economy, March 03, 2010

This Ban Is going to hurt if not shut many many places in michigan and not to account for many many lost jobs in a state that can not afford 1 job to be lost.Not at all a good deal for Michigan.If your Bar is properly ventilated let them smoke. You do not smell the bacon in a restruant.

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Votes: +48

where can I find answers
written by greg, March 04, 2010

What part of the new bill bans smoking on patios

"This law even goes as far as to ban smoking on the patios of restaurants."

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da
written by da, March 06, 2010

i thought cigarettes where legal....i pay my taxes and if i choose to have a smoking bar and you dont smoke you have the right not to come in you do not have the right to tell me how to run my bar

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Votes: +99

Right?
written by ..., March 07, 2010

Why isn't smoking a right?

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Votes: +13

PRISON TIME FOR SMOKERS, Lowly rated comment [Show]

freedom of choice to smoke
written by freedom, March 10, 2010

Smoking ban, will hurt, how stupid. why
If you buy cigrettes, you also fund childrean healthcare,give someone a job,
Cigrettes taxes which government collects.

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Votes: +12

Not Fair To Private Clubs
written by CASH, March 11, 2010

I do not have a problem with no smoking in restaurants, but have a problem with banning it from private clubs such as elks, Eagles, Moose, etc. These are private clubs with membership dues and are not open to the public. Privat club is the sme as private home. A hotel room is your temporary rsidence also. I wonder what the state would do if all the br owners said remove your Keno machines which is gambling and they would lose that tax money also. They sure do like the tax on cigarettes which they are reducing. Bar owners should protest the capital and threaten to remove Keno. After all 70% or more people that frequent bars are smokers.

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Votes: +63

Ban Regulation
written by CASH, March 11, 2010

How can you get a copy in full of the actual ban regulation?

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Votes: +2

Owner
written by Maureen Piggott, March 12, 2010

google the "DR Ron Davis Law"

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Votes: +3

How do we get our rights back?
written by Maureen Piggott, March 12, 2010

The goverment keeps making decisions for us that we dont agree with or want !!! We have to figure out how to let them know we don't agree with all this BS they are doing for our health. Why dont they go after fast food with all the artries clogged with fast food we will have a flood of people getting heart surgery, glabladders removed from all the greese it has to filter , lyposuction and gasteric bypass,to got rid of all the weight people have gained from fast food. Its all about moderation most people choose to do these things in moderation..........

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Votes: +18

MI Speedway will have another loss of patrons
written by Cindy K, March 13, 2010

I happened to get on MIS website and saw the smoke free news. We sit in the Champions Club and pay big bucks to sit there. We only smoke on the outdoor patios at the end of the clubhouses and now we're told we have to go down the elevator and find a designated smoking area BEHIND the grandstands to smoke. I can stay at home and watch the whole race and smoke there. We've been going there for over 20 years but I hate to say this will be the last year we go back. They are already losing racefans who can't afford to go but I bet this hits them in the pocketbook even harder.

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Votes: +16

The Non-Smokers Perspective, Lowly rated comment [Show]

...
written by JimBo, March 18, 2010

Looking at the non smokers perspective. We are talking about in many places private property, There is nothing forcing you to go to a bar that allows smoking or a club for that matter. You choose to go there, so choose not to. Why is it your right to tell a citizen how to run their business. Tell them with your $ or be quiet.

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Votes: +41

The Ban
written by Boom, March 19, 2010

This column is a little incorrect. The smoking ban is not enforced by the police department, nor will they pass out fines. The smoking ban is enforced by your county health department. The health inspector (and I know this through conversations with ours) will come by to inspect if there's a complaint. They're required to inspect with in 5-7 days of a complaint. Given that most health departments are already spread thin, hence only inspecting every 6 months, going to places will only spread them thinner.

As a bar/restaurant owner who originally supported this ban, I'm a little peeved by it. No where was it written the ban would include outdoor patios or seating areas. As it is in most states with a ban, any space with 3 open walls is exempt from the ban. I'd like to see legislation in the near future to ammend this ban to allow smoking in outdoor seating areas.

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Votes: +21

Hotel Rooms
written by Joey T, March 20, 2010

I am a hotel owner and am wondering if my customers will be allowed to smoke in there rooms? Is there a nuber I can call to find out details about this?

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Votes: +6

Hotel Bans
written by The Ban, March 20, 2010

http://www.michigan.gov/docume...4723_7.pdf

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Votes: -2

Wow.. its too much to consider !!
written by Kevin, March 21, 2010

Remember when the U.S. banned liquor.. Seems like there heading in the same direction with tobacco. Sounds like someone needs to open up underground smoke easy where you can smoke and drink.. I don't smoke, but I really understand how this can make many angry.. your right, its like giving up freedoms.. whats next? cell phones, computers? .. next it will be taxes and then were all in under control.. finally the government wins.. we need o grow up and stop giving up rights....

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Votes: +19

Wow... getting carried away..., Lowly rated comment [Show]

Rights as a non smoker, Lowly rated comment [Show]

Please re-read the law:, Lowly rated comment [Show]

Michigan Residents Save 50% on E-cigs Thru May from Losethelighter.com, Lowly rated comment [Show]

Shutting down, Lowly rated comment [Show]

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written by Matt, March 23, 2010

This bill sux! Y they banning smoking in BARS?!?! thats stooopid! bars r places where women drinking and smoking take place..fuck this law..just ruins our fun!

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Votes: -1

Let's put this in perspective.
written by justathought, March 24, 2010

There should be smoking and non-smoking bars. The patron makes the choice. If you don't like smoking do not go in the smoking bar. Period!
Another thing, would you rather have a person drive home from a bar that had 5 shots! OR 5 cigarettes? Just open up the patio's to the smokers. Done deal! We do that now anyway!

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Votes: +26

...
written by da, March 24, 2010

where do people get their facts from please read the law needs to read the law go to migov.com and read the law and rules that are being place on bar owners i have never had anyone ask for the non smoking section in my bar or came to me and said hey i am not coming in here anymore because you let people smoke da i guess i dont have rights. patio smoking not if your licensed to eat or drink on the patio or golf course

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Votes: -4

Oh yeessss they do..., Lowly rated comment [Show]

da
written by da, March 25, 2010

now smoking is child abuse ....public and private or two different things private bar and restaurants pay there own taxes not you i dont smoke in a public library or in front of city hall or in a car with my children and i dont tell you where to go or better yet if you drive a foreign car or where you live or if you recycle or compost your leaves or how much or my air you mess up by driving your car and if you use chemicals on your lawn messing up my water supply or yessssss ban lawn chemicals......

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Votes: +3

da
written by da, March 25, 2010

now smoking is child abuse ....public and private or two different things private bar and restaurants pay there own taxes not you i dont smoke in a public library or in front of city hall or in a car with my children and i dont tell you where to go or better yet if you drive a foreign car or where you live or if you recycle or compost your leaves or how much or my air you mess up by driving your car and if you use chemicals on your lawn messing up my water supply or yessssss ban lawn chemicals......

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Votes: -4

Concerned
written by justathought, March 26, 2010

There ya go. (Concerned) is the person who would/should go into the Non-Smoking Bar. See, No Big Deal. Just let the patron decide. If (Concerned) is the voice of the majority it would not be long before all the Smoking Bars were out of business anyway. It's all about CHOICES.

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Votes: +5

smoke more...not less....
written by Jerry, March 27, 2010

this government of ours is becomming a dictatorship...to many rules and laws...what ever happend to " land of the free" and "freedom of choice" no longer a choice in this country...we are becomming a 3rd world country...no wonder ppl want us gone....

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Votes: +20

Ban drinking in bars next!!!!!!!
written by Ban Bars, March 28, 2010

Next the state/government can do is ban bars from serving customers more than two drinks. I find that drunk drivers are more hazardous to my health. Then next we can ban all fast food restaurants because all these fat people not knowing any better keep eating fatty foods and cause our medical insurance to increase, oh yeah, we have a new "government" medical plan. Next ban all perfume. These people who wear perfume in public cause so many sinus problems to people. Thank you Jennifer, your a real American, and thanks for bringing your countrie's garbage into my state. That's great for my health too.

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Votes: +30

Freedom of Choice
written by To RLS1024, March 28, 2010

Are you an idiot. This has nothing to do about your "rights", but freedom of choice. In America, we should have the freedom to choose. If you don't like that the "owner" of a club or bar allows smoking, leave. Next you will want the government to censor radio, television, books, etc. because you don't like the content. Turn the channel, page, etc. It's all about choice. The right decision is for bars and clubs to install proper ventilation, have smoking areas, etc. The government should NOT be dictating private clubs - what happened to democracy and voting??? Private club patrons (people who actually pay to belong) should be able to have a democratic vote!!!

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Votes: +22

Re: Yeessss they do...
written by To Concerned, March 28, 2010

Your not that bright either. It's not just about "PUBLIC PLACES", if it were public casinos would be included as well. Private clubs are not PUBLIC. That is why they are called "PRIVATE". It's pure dictatorship. You wouldn't smoke around your kids, but I would bet you wouldn't have a problem giving them a happy meal or two. Let's ban fast food, too many fat kids out there - child abuse.

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Votes: +7

Patios
written by Hotel Manager, March 29, 2010

I've heard that since it is a "clean air" act, that if you have a guest that is in a non smoking room that has a patio, they will not be able to smoke on the patio. Does anybody know if this is true?

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Votes: -2

It's almost a No-Brainer
written by justathought, March 29, 2010

...that private clubs should never have been included in this mandate. Veterans, Am.Legion, etc. They pay for their memberships, they maintain and own their own buildings, lots do not serve food. ALL have Exceptional, Responsible members who proudly served their country to preserve the freedom of choice for all. Each post should have their own vote (up or down) on whether or not to allow smoking.
By the way if this was REALLY about Smoking/Clean Air there would 'not be one' Casino allowed excemption either. The ratio of individuals who still will be exposed to Dirty Air, at any given time, in a gaming area of a Casino far exceeds the patronage of a Veterans Private Club over months of usage. Let's hope the State considers their petitions and extends them the same favor given to those with the $$$. It's the right thing to do.

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Votes: +12

...
written by da, March 30, 2010

If this is a free country and the majority rules what happen to putting this on the ballot I have non smoking customers telling me this is wrong it should be our decision. I would just like to stay i hope all you non smokers complaining are not going to the Michigan smoking Casinos who are not even required to provide separate area to smoke let alone enclosed smoking area you just can not smoke at the bar put thats ok you can wonder around the casino and smoke and drink so who needs to smoke at the bar better yet just sit down and spend your money and the lady in the short little outfit will bring you a drink while you smoke your cigarette yessssss this is a fair law

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Votes: +3

unfair law
written by da, March 30, 2010

just for the record 2009 total state wagering tax for the 3 detroit casinos 122,338,629.25 this is why they get to smoke still in public places

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Votes: +6

THIS IS B.S.
written by Bartender - Hillman, MI , April 01, 2010

I would like to know the following information:

1. Can people still use E-Cigs in the bar?
2. I heard that 365 days of the ban being put into effect (MAY 1,2011). That you could apply for something to get your smoking privilages back if you lost a certin ammount of Gross Profit.
3. Can this law be apealed?

Sorry for the poor spelling iam not that good at it.. But yea I would greatly appreceate it if someone could reply with an answer to my questions..

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Votes: +0

Clean air act except for casinos da $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
written by da, April 03, 2010

Why would someone give someone asking a question a vote down ? Hillman bartenter 1. yes 2 no 3 ?

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Votes: +2

Concerned Rebuttal
written by Any Government = Bad, April 05, 2010

This is in response to the response from jastathought on 3-26-2010. Note that I am a non-smoker but am completely against this non smoking law! Justathought you contradict your own writing. You are right, let the patron decide! I, you, nor the government has any damn right to tell a bar owner, restaurant, club owner, racetrack, etc. that they can't allow smoking in their establishment. No one forces you to go to a smoking bar. If you don't want your lungs affected by the smoking than don't go to that bar, restaurant, club, etc... You don't have a right to go to any of these establishments. An owner can refuse service to anyone at anytime. I don't smoke nor like smoking so I don't go to bars and restaurants where smoking is heavy. Instead I make my choice and visit establishments that are non-smoking or have no smoking sections. If you are a non-smoker and visit a smoking establishment, it's not the smokers that are affecting your lungs, IT'S YOU! You have the option to not sit in the smoke but YOU made the choice to. The only one/thing tht is affecting your lungs is you. If you don't like smoking don't go to that place. The bottom line is it IS the owner of the establishments RIGHT to be able to decide whether or not they want to allow smoking in THEIR busienss. If you don't like it and don't want to affect your lungs, then DON'T GO TO THAT BUSINESS!!!! -- DAMN quite supporting the erosion of our rights.

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Votes: +28

Some clarifications
written by Mikey, April 05, 2010

Some of these issues may end up in court, but here is the most up-to-date info on the law as written and it is expecetd to be enforced.

The reason the state includes outdoor patios in the ban is the law forbids smoking in "food service establishments," i.e. anywhere food or drink is to be consumed under the control of the bar/restaurant proprietor-- which could include a patio.

The part of the law that simply bans smoking in "enclosed, indoor areas," does not apply to restaurants, since they are covered separately in the law.

As for hotel room balconies or patios, I believe since they are not part of a hotel's bar/restaurant, smoking would be allowed. But the state has not answered that specific question.

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Surprised, Lowly rated comment [Show]

Surprised - WTF
written by Any Government = Bad, April 05, 2010

Don't change with the times? Curious how many people do you see sitting at a bar only drinking and not smoking? The fact of the matter is if it was or would be more profitable for a bar, restaurant, etc.. to go completely non-smoking more would. I manage a restaurant in Michigan where our owner decided to go non-smoking 2 years ago on his own. We lost a ton of revenue. We did pick up some new business from the non smokers who wouldn't normally come to our restaurant, but nothing even close to the lost business from the smokers. You also have to figure in all of the people who just plain won't go out now, they will stay home and smoke. The bottom line is the fact that it is and should be the business OWNER'S right to determine whether they want to offer smoking or not. It is not the government's right to make that decision for them.

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Votes: +13

...
written by da, April 05, 2010

Now do you non smoker want to be the one to tell a 83 year customer that has been coming in your bar since as long as he can remember that he needs to put his pipe out. I guess I have to enforce a law that my customers did not have a say in and would not have voted for, You have your rights so I guess that's all that matters my rights to make decisions on how to run my bar based on feed back from my patrons are not important. I still think we should band law chemicals but Iam sure that could be a problem because you might need to apply your weed killer before you go out to your smoke free bar where youll get waited on by the owner because they had let there employees go so they could pay there bills.

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Votes: +4

...
written by Courtney, April 06, 2010

It's as simple as this... If you want to have a smoke you should be allowed to have a smoke. After all they are legal!!! And if smoking is not your cup of tea then go to a NON-SMOKING bar/restaurant. There are plenty of places that offer that NON-Smoking atmosphere. When did being a smoker make you a minority? Where is a smoker's bill of rights? Small bars/restaurants are going to suffer from this. Next thing you know we are going to try to do prohibition all over again because of illnesses due to drinking. Or they are going to ban fast food due to the obesity rate. We are growing up as a nation of sissy's. If you don't like smoking then don't go where it is. We have bigger issues then making Michigan Non-Smoking. I mean have you guys seen the unemployment rate? This ban as far as I am concerned is going to add to it. Small restaurants/bars that have a huge smoking client base are going to have to raise prices or let employees go or just simply close their doors. Thanks A Bunch Jen for all the great work you have done...(I say as a true smart a$$)

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Votes: +12

Concerned Rebuttal Correction
written by justathought, April 06, 2010

Response to Any Government: Yes, it WAS a contradiction "(If (Concerned) is the voice of the majority it would not be long before all the NON- SMOKING BARS were out of business anyway." That's what I REALLY meant to say.....Actually I've been to a well known (southern city) that has only one smoking bar and the rest non. The non-smoking bars still have some people but the smoking bar is wall to wall and standing room only. Hmmmm....interesting reflection of how this law affects business.

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Votes: +8

To Surprised
written by justathought, April 06, 2010

Really now, how many businesses does a person go to that they smoke? The mall? Grocery store? The barber? The florist? Restaurants (most are non-smoking now)? Big Box stores? Hardware store? Your office at work? Just think about it for a minute. Going out to a bar is totally different. And from a person who has owned a business I can tell you that no business owner is blinded by their own thinking. It is constant adjustment to the needs of the client. I’ll give you the one that a few more non-smokers will go to these non-smoking establishments but they will not make up for the ones they lose. And the fact remains that you can still smoke in a casino with (hundreds) of people around you. Does THAT stop the non-smoker from going there? That is not adjusting, that is blinded by $$. (just another thought!)

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Votes: +3

Surprised response
written by justathought, April 06, 2010

Really now, how many businesses does a person go to that they smoke? The mall? Grocery store? The barber? The florist? Restaurants (most are non-smoking now)? Big Box stores? Hardware store? Just think about it for a minute. Going out to a bar is totally different. And from a person who has owned a business I can tell you that no business owner is blinded by their own thinking. It is constant adjustment to the needs of the client. I’ll give you the one that a few more non-smokers will go to these non-smoking establishments but they will not make up for the ones they lose. And the fact remains that you can still smoke in a casino with (hundreds) of people around you. Does THAT stop the non-smoker from going there? That is not adjusting, that is blinded by $$. (just another thought!)

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Votes: +3

To Surprised, a response
written by justathought, April 06, 2010

..you think the business owners are blinded by their own thinking????? More like they have been blind-sided. Of course bars will be hit hard, harder, hardest by this LAW. All businesses are adjusting you say except bars?? How many times do people smoke in Grocery stores? Florist shops? At the barber? Hardware stores? Work offices? Hospitals? Most restaurants even now? Not a fair minded comparison is it? STILL those Casino's can light up and smoke, smoke, smoke with hundreds of people in a closed area. Does that keep the non-smokers from going there$$$$ At least they still have a CHOICE! (just another thought!)

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Scientific Theory..., Lowly rated comment [Show]

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written by Smokr4life, April 08, 2010

There are several comments on here from non-smokers claiming that they are forced to inhale the second hand smoke produced by smokers. Did you ever think, when you walked into the restaurant and it smelled like smoke, of going somewhere else? Smokers don't go to non-smoking restaurants, and non-smokers don't go to smoking restaurants. Duh!

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Votes: +13

BAD NEWS BEARS!
written by MaryBeth, April 08, 2010

I think this ban is coming at a poor time for MI economy- This article talks about people who will cut back on smoking in order to go to the bar- I fear the opposite will happen. People will cut back on going to the bar because they would rather drink at a place (home) where they can smoke. Fewer patrons means fewer profits which leads to closed businesses... We live in an indulgent state- One of the fattest, most violent places in the US is Detroit! We're clearly not a state that embraces indulging in healthy living. Not to mention the number of drunk people that will be stumbling to their CARS to smoke in, instead of trying to stand far enough from the building to be considered "off premesis"- Even a key in the ignition can be cited for drunk driving! This ban encourages people who have been drinking to leave the premesis- THIS IS NOT SAFE!! This is all around Bad News Bears for our state.

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written by Lynn, April 08, 2010

EVERY employee is entitled to a healthy & safe workplace. Thats the point of the law. Smoking is not healthy...

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written by LRW, April 08, 2010

Bars are still packed in Chicago and they have been non smoking for 2 COLD Chicago winters. You still wait to be seated in California resturants...Hawaii, same thing,people still go there, people still go OUT in every other state that has a ban. Bar owners will save money by nothaving to clean up after the destruction & filth smoking causes. Bar employee's now can work in a SAFE environment.

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re:mike
written by da, April 08, 2010

yes we read the law da? We do not have to leave the state just go to a casino..... where you and the workers are still exposed to second hand smoke fair why are they so special? oh about 10,000,000 in tax revenue a month for the state of michigan oh stupid me thats just the 3 detroit casinos.

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My thoughts
written by Non-smoker MI, April 09, 2010

I am a non smoker and have mixed feelings about the ban. I understand that many restaurants and bars may be hurt, but I can't tell you how many restaurants I have wanted to try but couldn't get through the door because of the smell of smoke or having to walk throught the smoking gauntlet to get to the non-smoking section. Bars have been out of the question for a long time because of the smoke smell, but I would love to go to some of these bars to dance or hear these awesome small bands. I might just go after May (or wait until June/July for the lingering air to clear). I would love to go to trivia or karaoke at bars like Connor O'Neill's in Ann Arbor but won't go because of the smoke. I really don't know how the law applies to outdoors or how it will be enforced but I can't imagine telling people they can't smoke while walking in the park or down the street. But I also am going to enjoy my walks when I no longer have to follow someone or a group of people who are smoking. Are businesses allowed to have a "smoking area" for employees? (Another gauntlet I hate to walk through.) I believe people should be allowed to smoke in their home and anywhere on their property or in their car. I think it is a step towards a healthier community and I think businesses will survive.

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Too Funny
written by UncleSol, April 09, 2010

What a ridiculous law. I'll be doing my socializing with friends at home from now on.

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WOW, Lowly rated comment [Show]

Can't smoke outside?
written by Mike, April 09, 2010

I own a bar in MI,I was worried about the ban when it first came out,but I have a outdoor beer garden with tables and chairs and a couple of bean bag games set up,I even bought a outdoor pool table this year because of the ban.I have no problem not smoking inside,but outside? I don't serve much food and I don't serve anything outside. We have a non-smoking bar in town and it's never busy. Does anyone have any idea why MI won't let people smoke in outdood areas in bars? What happens when someone goes out the front door to smoke and takes drink with them? the bar gets in trouble. Not only am I going to loose business,I have to hire people to watch the doors so this won't happen? I think the whole thing sucks!

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re: el capiton
written by da, April 09, 2010

Why dont you talk about how many people who work in the 3 detroit casinos and why they can still smoke and my one employee and me that both smoke are somehow different from the 100s of employees at the casinos. are you blind your missing the point smoke free work enviroment unless you own a casino law.......by the way the 10 people in this small bar right now are all smoking .....i want to hear you explain this one in all your rambling....

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smoking in public
written by terry, April 09, 2010

the whole bill suxs, I didnt vote for it

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re da, Lowly rated comment [Show]

smoking ban
written by Tim, April 10, 2010

I feel the state should sell a permit to smoke and be renewed once a year along with the liquor license. Additionally, smoking is considered an addiction, like alcohol, which means Michigan is discriminating against smokers!! I want to apply for disability since I am considered an addict! Alcoholics can get disability, so why can't smokers?

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Votes: +16

Its about your rights people!!
written by nanci, April 11, 2010

I am a business owner - HOW DARE this stupid state tell me what I can and can't do in MY BUSINESS. You put a big freaking sign on the door that says
"I allow smoking in this establishment" you don't like it... don't walk in the damn door. And, if I want to spill my brains out on the highway cuz I didn't wear a helmet... they are my brains, and I should be able to spill them if I want. Bars owners have had the right to ban smoking in THEIR bars if they wanted.... Yeah, not too many of them have, huh? WHAT THE HELL HAS HAPPENED TO THIS COUNTRY.

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re: smoking ban
written by justathought, April 11, 2010

Two EXCELLENT points (Smoking Ban). It is discrimination! But, if determined by law to be true, I guess they would have to ban Drinking in bars too... then we won't need bars at all! Except of course in Casino's!!!!!!

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Business Owner
written by Bradley Gensel, April 11, 2010

Smoking Ban vs Being Constitutional. First Place this bill was never given to We The People to vote on our selves, but rather they just shoved it down our throats and then they just turned a deaf ear to the People when we attempt to stop it. Well Governor do not leave this state to soon, we have a few issues of Un American Activity you have brought down On to the American People with out our consent. A Group Of People and or Company's are not a Representative of the American People. This Bill is just a stepping stone to open the door for more Un American Laws, that resemble those Mentioned in the Declaration Of Independence of past Tyrants. Now think about this Brit: Pay the Just Compensation you have to pay before you can enforce any laws that takes rights or property or cause the lose of property or the lose of pursuit of happiness and and living with out fear of a tyrant government would do. Pay Or Get Out and go to a country that live and Rules the way you like, that is the only right you have in America.

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written by regular smoker, April 12, 2010

stupid law that is just another way for government to controll our rights as free citizensand why tax us more if you dont like smoking thats you descision dont try to force your beleives on all the smokers in the united devided states!!!!!

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written by Mistie, April 13, 2010

I think it is about time that they put the ban in place. I am not a smoker and I don't care to inhale someone else's smoke. If they want to smoke it should be in their own home or car not around others especially children. I give a thumbs up to the government on this one and it is about time!

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Comments
written by Ovid Girl, April 14, 2010

Having worked in a restaurant for a year I know that smoking is really important to many people, I also know that many smokers try quitting. This ban is just one way that smokers can kick the habit. It might not make the world of difference, but it makes a little and that is what counts.

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Favoring casinos
written by Silver Fang, April 15, 2010

Since they are exempt from the ban, this law clearly favors the state run casinos over bars. Their attitude was: Let's make the bars undesirable so we can get the smokers into the casinos to funnel profit directly to the state. The bars? They were just in the way to begin with.

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unconstitutional
written by Fight for Freedom, April 15, 2010

As a non-smoker I agree with banning smoking in the work place, because as a worker we are not allowed to leave our work stations because the person next to us is smoking. And if you were to ask some of the smokers out there to stop smoking, chances are they’d start blowing the smoke your direction. However I find the law itself is unconstitutional. If a smoker wishes to commit suicide by smoking, that’s his/her right, however does not have the right to kill me too.

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written by doc, April 15, 2010

no tobacco product usage at all in bars/restaurants
if it contains tobacco it is off limits
including chewing tobacco
it will probably hurt my business though
because i will have a lot less cancer to diagnose and treat

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The rest of the story...
written by A currently- trying- to- quit smoker, April 15, 2010

Not many people know this but smoking increases stamina in bed, and promotes cardiovascular health in general. It is the number one conquerer of AIDS and has helped countless orphans find new homes.

Now that the truth is out I need to tell just the Whiney non-smokers here a little something I heard from the late Bill Hicks that I agree with. Non-Smokers die every day. Period. You are not immortal and you can take your second-hand smoke bullshit to the grave with you. The dangers of second-hand smoke are limited to someone tying you down and blowing every exhale from their cigarette directly into your mouth and nose. That may cause problems later. I think the real harm even from that would be the Carbon Dioxide you exhale and not the cigarette smoke. Most of the dangerous parts of the smoke have been filtered out by your body so its probably a very good percentage of harmless by-products. This shit was made up by certain for-profit organizations to make them self important and able to hold onto self created jobs.

Air pollutants can be found in a variety of common everyday products including personal fragrances, room freshening sprays and oils, dry-cleaned clothing, paints and stains, glues, scented candles, bug sprays, furniture, rugs, personal care products, and furniture polish.

Toxins are also introduced into the air through vehicle exhaust, commercial processes, energy production, electronics, and many other sources.

We eat foods laced with chemicals—agricultural pesticides, herbicides, insecticides, fertilizers, stabilizers, preservatives, growth hormones, pharmaceuticals, artificial dyes and flavorings, and more. Many of these are synthetic, petroleum-based ingredients that are not digestible and potentially damaging with long-term exposure.

Our diet consists of unhealthy quantities of saturated fat, white sugar, artificial sweeteners, and processed foods and not nearly enough healthy ingredients—fruits, vegetables, legumes, beans, and whole grains.

Our daily intake of water is much lower than it should be. Instead, we consume beverages such as soda, coffee, and sugary juices.

We apply dozens of chemicals to our skin, and our skin can absorb as much as 60 percent of these chemicals. The average female will use 12 products on their skin every day, each containing at least 10 different chemicals. In the US, only 11 percent of these products have been tested for safety and a full one-third have been proven to be carcinogenic!

So, keep entertaining yourself that you will live forever you ignorant sheep.

Sleep tight.

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I see both sides.
written by Mich Ohio Border, April 15, 2010

I am a smoker that lives on the Michigan Ohio boarder. When Ohio passed the law many of my friends started going to Michigan Bars. I agree with NOT smoking in many establishments, some that even serve alcohol. I dont agree with how they pass these laws or the exemptions that they pass out (Thats our governments problem) if you have enough money. Small bars, hole in the wall bars, and private orginizations should maintain the right to choose to allow smoking or not to.

Many bars in Ohio still allow smoking, a 500 dollar fine is worth the business that allowing smoking brings in, and Michigan will eventually come to the same conclusion. It may be your right to "not deal with our smoke" but it is our right to smoke as well. Kids dont go to bars, so you cant use that arguement, your not forced to go there, so you cant use that one either, your not forced to work there and if you do you choose to work there knowing that there was smoking permitted.

We as smokers may not have the right to infringe on your rights, but what gives you the right to infringe on ours? No one tells establishments what food they can sell, weather you are allergic to it or not, no one tells movie theatres what kind of movies they can play, no one tells you that you cant buy foregin made products, and no one tells you what gas to put in your car. The MORE LAWS THEY PASS REGUARDLESS OF WHO THEY AFFECT, THE MORE RIGHTS WE LOSE!!

I agree with the ban everywhere except bars and out doors. People dont need to smoke while they eat, and they dont need to smoke around their kids. They need to cut back on people who smoke in their car with their kids in it and the windows rolled up. They have more important issues to deal with than stupid little laws that take our rights away.

EVERY ARGUEMENT AGAINST SMOKERS BECAUSE IT INFRINGES ON SOMEONE ELSE'S RIGHTS SHOULD BE RE LOOKED AT. NO ONES RIGHTS SUPERCEED THE RIGHTS OF EVERYONE ELSES. GO SOMEWHERE ELSE IF YOU DONT WANT TO DEAL WITH SMOKE, STAY OUT OF OUR BARS. I RESPECT YOU ENOUGH NOT TO SMOKE WHILE IM EATING, OR HANGING OUT AT YOUR HOUSE, OR AROUND THE KIDS AT THE PLAYGROUND. STAY OUT OF MY BAR.

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SMOKERS PLEASE READ
written by im mad, April 15, 2010

O.K. SO THE BAN IS ALMOST HERE...WHAT CAN WE DO? WE CAN BAN KENO....HIT THEM WHERE IT HURTS MOST THEIR POCKETBOOK....SO DONT STOP GOING TO YOUR LOCAL BARS ITS NOT THE BAR OWNERS FAULT... JUST STOP PLAYING KENO!!!!!!!!

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BEAT THE SMOKING BANS!!!
written by FURIOUS, April 15, 2010

Has anyone heard of those new Crown7 electric cigarettes??? Ive seen people smoke them in bars and restaurants! I think its time all of us smokers give these things a try!!

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absolutely not
written by xxxero, April 16, 2010

The smoking ban will not make most people quit smoking. what it will do, is make me stop going out to these places. I find it unbelievable that they ban smoking at bars, but not alcohol. So i can't smoke at a bar, but i can ingest alcohol, which isn't exactly healthy.

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..., Lowly rated comment [Show]

Get Real
written by A currently- trying- to- quit smoker, April 17, 2010

Another ignorant comment from a sheep. Smoing is not a privilage or a right... it just is. I would love to quit smoking and have tried mnay times and coninue to try. It makes me winded when climbing stairs and costs a lot of money. However, since I currently do smoke I do it not because I am allowed to or becasue it was a gift to me from my government. The only thing the government does is take away the freedom to smoke from those too young to realize how bad it is for you.

So, to recap ....

Smoking is.

thats all, nothing more.

And why bring the end of slavery into this? Slavery hurt others for absolutely no reason. Smoking hurts the smoker and that is all.

Again in the words of the late, great Bill Hicks ...

" I'll smoke, I'll get the tumors, I'll die ... deal?"

Nobody has ever died from second hand smoke. If you do not agree with this then prove it ...... undeniable proof ..... I'm waiting,.....

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written by What about my choice?, April 18, 2010

I read about everyone complaing about their freedom of choice, but what about the non smokers choice?!? you say,"if they dont like smoke, then leave" or "go to a different bar". Do you know how many non smoking bars there are in MI???? Not many at all. If i want to go to a bar that is non smoking, i have to drive an hour away!!! and i dont live in a small town either damn it! All i have read about is all the smokers WHINNING because this takes away their freedom of choice. when you smokers light up at a bar you are taking away MY freedom of choice! I choose not to smoke, but i'm inhaling it from you! Second hand smoke is worse! im inhaling straight carbon monoxide because of your need to smoke. I dont get a filter when you smoke!I'm sure i could choose not to come in there, but due to the lack of non smoking bars through out MI, i'd end up having to stay home! how is that fair?!?! the smokers get the bars too?!?! everyday more americans are chosing not to smoke. Do you need to have a beer everytime you have a cig?!? no! so why do you feel the need to have a cig everytime you have a beer? Deal with it for a couple hours, or man up and go outside!!! PLUS, I have found that i feel more like shit after a night out with cig smoke then i do when i go anywhere with no smoke! you keep complaining that the government has violated your rights as a smoker, well, i think you have taken away our rights as non smokers long enough. I know that to make everyone happy, we probably should have equal amount of non smoking bars as we do smoking bars in each town, but thats not going to happen. So let me keep my lungs since i choose not to smoke and you can go do what you want to yours in your own home

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Easy solution
written by A currently- trying- to- quit smoker, April 18, 2010

Hey here's a novel idea ..... don't go to the bar. What is the point of going to the bar anyway. Buy a 12 pack and go sit at home. Drunk drivers kill a lot of people. 2nd hand smoke has never been actually proven to kill anyone ..... all speculation.

The smoking industry is way to big to just shut down. Think of the job loss, the kickbacks, the taxes paid by the big tobacco companies... etc...
I personally wish it had not started in the first place as I no longer enjoy smoking. However, it is an extremely hard thing to quit, something non-smokers will never understand (unless your a former smoker) and you cannot just shut it off. If you can, then you are a very strong willed person.

In the bigger picture, smoke related deaths help our population balance out, if nobody died of smoking we would have less food, air, drinking water, housing...etc...

So once again, instead of ignorant, narrow minded personal interests, think in a wider scope at the ramifications from both sides of the argument.
I agree a smopke free world would be healthier, however our so-called ha=ealthy air we breath has been contaminated by 200 years of industry.... and YOUR car that you drive every day that blows out pure carbon monoxide.

Bye for now ..

Me

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Single income family gonna lose more money
written by Bartender D, April 21, 2010

I'm a bartender in a small town, but our bar is well known thru out the county and more..but..with this damn law, 90% I'd say of our customers smoke as well as I do.My tips will go down alot now that they can't do what they had always done.. The gov has already target taxed us, now they gonna tell us where we can smoke when smoking is not illegal! I agree with alot of the people on this forum..take the KENO out, see how Jen likes that! Enought jobs have been lost here in MIch..way make more businesses fail. You want more state money..put tax back on food.that way the ones buying lobster n steaks can pay more. Make higher luxury tax..target tax the rich you dumb ass gov!!!!

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heres something to think about
written by dms....1986, April 21, 2010

YOU'VE WRITE ABOUT RIGHTS AND PRIVILAGES....WHAT RIGHTS DO WE HAVE? AN ELDERLY MAN TOLD ME,YES THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY BUT WE HAVE SO MANY LAWS WERE NOT ALLOWED TO DO ANYTHING....TRUST ME ITS ONLY GONNA GET WORSE

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cant leave home
written by assma, April 23, 2010

i see a lot of post on the right to smoke what about my right to breath because both me and my child suffer from smoke induced assma we a resticed on where we can go inside and out parks zoos bowling ect ect. i had to quit a least two jobs because my fellow employs where smoking around me while i work, the owners did not care even though i end up very sick and in the er over night. Many smokers are rude and could careless about how the behavor afects every one around them, if you wish to smoke that fine but what right do you have to make the choose for me and my child or any one else for that matter

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Rights and Privileges
written by dct9000, April 25, 2010

We all have a right to go into public establishments. Additionally we have a right to expect the air we breath will be safe. Societies by nature put constraints on citizenry to prevent one group or person causing unsafe conditions on others. That's why we have traffic laws, building codes and anti-pollution laws. Smoke at home, enjoy the feel, and when it comes time to treat your emphysema hopefully you'll have good insurance to cover it, or maybe our national coverage will take care of you. As for me the threat of your smoke should keep me healthier so I won't have to worry about that particular malady.

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Breath in the air
written by Health conscious, April 27, 2010

I am all for it. Look at all the money everyone will
save,not to mention the added years to life.
Let the tobacco company's reorganize, into a business
that sells something organic. Meanwhile, people will return to the restaurants: and while were at it, maybe
the bars can adjust to a place that serves a healthly
agenda. I do not consider it a bad thing when a government entity intervenes for my greater good.
I'm all for big government when it pertains to the greater good. Keep greed and personal agenda for the foxes who would betray the sanctity of the proverbial hen-house. This all may seem left leaning. If health and well being is left leaning then so be it.
What we need to consider carefully, is what is really aligned with what rings true as common sense.
Let's all stand together joined in hand, drink a coke, just one, breath in the air it's not that bad...

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Fight the smoking ban
written by Bill, April 27, 2010

How would we go about getting all bar owners to unplug the Keno machinesfor a day or week? Whatever it takes. Hit the idiot Granholm in the pocket book

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Votes: +7

Sick of big government catering to the F****** crybabies of the world
written by Carol, April 27, 2010

OK I AM FED UP! Listen here you crybabie non smoker, if you come up to me while i am having a cigarette outside and ask me to put it out i am going to tell you to F*** O**.
As with the first response this moron govenor is going to shut down even more business's.
I weigh 105 and am 5"3, i exercise all the time, i eat very healthy and am a borderline vegitarian, i am healthy as a horse and you non smokers who stuff your fat face with piggy foods are going to cry to me that my second hand smoke is killing you? HAH LIAR
ALL YOU BIG MOUTHS WANT TO DO IS CONTROL, THERE HAS NEVER BEEN NOT ONE SINGLE DOCUMENTED CASE OF SECOND HAND SMOKE KILLING SOMEONE, ITS A PHALLICY A LIE.
The number one killer is heart related from obesity you cry baby, not cigaretts,I AM STILL GOING TO SMOKE WHEN I WANT AND WHERE I WANT, I WILL SMOKE IN THE TOILETS I WILL SMOKE IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING'S AND I DONT HANG IN BARS SO I FEEL FOR THE OWNERS WHO WILL LOSE, I WILL SLAP ANYONE WHO TRIES TO STOP ME.
i am fed up with big government telling me what to do,
WE ARE LOSING AMERICA FOLKS

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Just for writer health conscious
written by Carol, April 27, 2010

HEY HEALTH CONSCIOUS, YOU ARE A IDIOT. YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE CRY BABIES WHO TRY AND STICK THEY NOSE IN EVERYONES BUSINESS, YOU ARE NUTS, HOLD HANDS AND DRINK A COKE, IF YOU ARE SO HEALTH CONSCIOUS WHY ARE YOU DRINKING COKE? BECAUSE YOU ARE A LIAR, YOU ARE ALL FOR BIG GOVERNMENT? ONE DAY WHEN THEY LOCK YOU UP BECAUSE WE ARE A SOCIALISTIC COUNTRY BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT DIDNT LIKE THAT YOU STUFF YOU FAT FACE AND FEED YOUR KIDS GARBAGE THEN YOU WILL WISH YOU HAD LIBERTIES AGAIN

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Partial ban?
written by Rich, April 27, 2010

Soon you will be smoking at home,outside on your deck,then the smoke will blow into your neighbors yard,then you will have them,calling the police on you!

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Votes: +2

buisness
written by jay, April 27, 2010

i think every one should have a choice if they want to ban it display a sign outside. if they dont than place sign outside....so people can make there dission were to go we all have rights take one away there will be more to come after that.. the goverment shouldnt make the choice buissness should and people should.. every one needs to look at bigger pic. of the hole thing this is just the beggining

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no employees?
written by Dan, April 27, 2010

What if I get rid of all of my employees and subcontract people instead, will this work around the ban?

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ridiculous.
written by rm, April 28, 2010

i don't smoke. never have and never want to.
but i think if a private party owns an establishment and wants to make it haven for smokers they should have the right to do so! if you don't want to breathe the smoke, don't go there. go to a bar that IS smoke free. supply and demand will eventually bring about bars and restaurants that are entirely smoking or entirely smoke free.

Dear Michigan: thanks for voting away our ability to choose. we aren't ignorant about the health hazards of smoking; if i choose to smoke and want to allow others to do so in the restaurant i own, that's my problem. if you don't want people to smoke, why didn't you just go ahead and made smoking illegal?

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i
written by logan, April 28, 2010

i want to smoke !!!!!!

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No Need for this law
written by Safety Guy, April 28, 2010

There is already a law in place to regulate smoking in the work place.

The Occupational Safety and Health Act is the primary federal law which governs employee exposure to hazardous materials. Its main goal is to ensure that employers provide employees with an environment free from recognized hazards, such as exposure to toxic chemicals, excessive noise levels, mechanical dangers, heat or cold stress, or unsanitary conditions. Second hand smoke is a recognized hazard.


So employees who work at bars and restaurants are already covered by this law since 1970, and employers who allow smoking in their businesses have been in violation of federal law since 1970.

Those of you who are arguing that smoking should be allowed, are also arguing the your employer should be allowed to exposure you to harmful levels harmful materials, including carcinogens.

As for hiring temporary employees, temporary employees are still employees and are covered by the OSHA Act.

Now, I'm sure some of you are going to argue that employees at businesses that allow smoking are not over exposed, prove it. There are plenty of studies showing the connection between 2nd hand smoke and adverse health affects.

I'm also sure some will argue that if the employee is concerned about 2nd hand smoke they should work some where else. That's fine, but that doesn't alleviate the business owner from providing a work place free from recognized hazards.

Do you really want to own a busyness that knowingly exposes its employees to carcinogens?

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........
written by cory smoker, April 29, 2010

this is ridiculous... the chances of second hand smoke hurting are so low, people believe anything they here about smoking just becuase some people want smoking to go away so badly they will tell you how dangerous it is. They taking our rights one by one. We have rights as smokers, and you know what? non-smokers have the right to not be around smokers, there are plenty of restaraunts and bars that have already gone non-smoking and if smoke bothers people so much (which i think they are just being cry babies because the smoke doesnt even get near them when they are in another section) then go to the non smoking places. The u.s. government is out of control, were all going to have to sneak across the border to canada and over populate them and take all their jobs just to smoke. i dont care who thinks they can enforce this law on me, i will smoke in public whenever i feel so, and if a place is non smoing(which they all will be) i will not go out anymore. ive seen a recently whent non smoking resteraunt file a chapter eleven last month and bankruptcy is inevitable, the michigan economy will suffer, more than already is.

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If I Had A Bar...
written by Chris, April 29, 2010

If I had a bar, I would just continue to let people smoke in it and pay their stupid $100 and $500 fines. I'd be cleaning up because people would be coming to my place. If I ever saw Granholm on the street, I'd light a cigarette and blow the smoke in her face. The government has TOO much power and non-smokers are such f**king snobs.

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Votes: +7

worst thing that can ever happen!!!
written by someone, April 29, 2010

this is the worst thing ever!!!
i'm a non smoker and im still against this ban.

sincing you're basically abandoning smoking anywhere and everywhere, you should stop selling it completely but thats what brings michigan business, we are already losing jobs with businesses and this will shut down WAY more and you all say you wanted to get Michigan better and fix this. How Funny!! You guys all are just gonna get Michigan more worst then what it is and it'll be YOUR fault, not any of ours because of this ban, whether you do or don't smoke ... and ban it for everyone, including the Indians and see how that goes!!! They are here too. Its only fair.

And what about alcohol???. you should ban alcohol too, or is that next to be ban??? that is WAY worst then smoking. People are seemly dieing or wrecking from drinking and driving.

I think the resturants/bars/clubs or any other business should have the option of no smoking or smoking, especially if they own the business, whether its inside or outside.

What about factories? and cars? They polute the air too with everything else. Are you gonna ban all them too? Should we all go back to horses to get around?

What about chew??? Are you gonna ban that too?? Thats bad for you too.

What about the festivals that go on everywhere in Michigan? Can't smoke in them either?

There are plenty of things that are bad for us. Are you gonna try to ban them all??

The funny thing is, michigan just passed a law for smoking marijuana for those who needs it for medical but yet you're banning smoking cigarettes basically anywhere and everywhere. Guess you should just make it legal for everyone.

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Votes: +6

Ridiculous
written by Mark Henry, April 29, 2010

It sounds ridiculous to think that smoking is on the way to not being permitted in Detroit strip clubs. Thats just like fries with no ketchup. And pertaining to restraunts, Michigan is the last state that needs a public smoking ban especially in these hard economic times. But its our moronic state government making the choices...

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Not Right
written by Sarah, April 29, 2010

Where are the AMERICANS? Americans took FSC sitting down. All that say "it doesn't affect me" are WRONG, because it affects you as an American. A product of questionable saftey without testing for human ingestion was added to a legal product and users were offered no alternative without the product added. That is UNAMERICAN. For those who say "I don't smoke, so I don't care" it will only be a matter of time before it affects a product you use. The actions against smokers are only clearing the way for more actions against AMERICANS. To those who protest an overly powerful government I don't hear your protests or see your rallies. There are bar owners out there who do not smoke who do NOT support the smoking ban because it takes away their RIGHT as a property owner to decide what happens on THEIR PROPERTY. To everyone who says "I don't smoke, it doesn't affect me" you are wrong because it is affecting PROPERTY OWNERS RIGHT TO DECIDE WHAT HAPPENS ON THEIR PROPERTY. These are laws affecting Americans, in regaurd to what goes into legal products and the rights of property owners. Michigan cannot afford this law! Of all nonsmokers who would rather see jobs than a smoking ban which will cost jobs? The majority of the public does not understand what this means for America, or for Michigan. People will not quit smoking (and Michigan can't afford them to!) and people will not all flock to the casinos to smoke and drink. Americans need to open their eyes and realise these actions against smokers and smoke products affect us all. If this was all in the name of health actions would be taken against food industry on all levels of production. Americans need to stand up and tell their representatives that they are not stupid and realise what these actions mean for all - smokers and nonsmokers.

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Votes: +5

ITS TAKING SMOKERS RIGHTS!!!!1
written by mrs.king, April 30, 2010

THE USA IS SUPPOSE TO BE ABOUT FREEDOM BUT NOW THEY ARE TAKING AWAY SMOKERS RIGHTS TO SMOKE EVERY AND ANYWHERE AND ITS NOT RIGHT. SHE NEED TO JUST MAKE PLACES WERE IT CAN AND CANNOT BE SMOKING AND MAKE EVERYONES RIGHTS = AND NOT NON-SMOKERS BETTER THAN THE SMOKERS..

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written by mrs.king, April 30, 2010

hey nolannn lol

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SMOKING BAN LAW IS
written by mr king, April 30, 2010

NO I WILL GO TO THE GOV IN SMACK HER HEAD BECUSE SHE KNOW SHE SMOKE TO SO WHAT SHE GO DO SHE JUST MADE IT WORES FOR HER THAT B

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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
written by *********, April 30, 2010

This is not a good thing for the state. Comeing from someone that works in a bar i dont think that this should happen i spent a year and a half looking for a job and i just fnd one that happens to be in a bar and this happens. I think that she didnt think this all the way through and if she did then she has something rong with her. All the people in michigan that dont have a job will suffer majorly from this. we need to creat more jobs not take them away.

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smoking, not good
written by nolan, April 30, 2010

Many people think it is their right to smoke, which is very true, but on the other hand people who dont smoke are annoyed by smokers taking over thier joint. And why cant smokers smoke outside. i meen come on, smokers cant live without a cigarette in thier mouth, BS. so that is my say

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smoking chemicals
written by nolan, April 30, 2010

Chemical
Found in:

carbon monoxide
car exhaust

nicotine
bug sprays

tar
material to make roads

arsenic
rat poison

ammonia
cleaning products

hydrogen cyanide
gas chamber poison

cyanide
deadly poison

acetone
nail polish remover

butane
cigarette lighter fluid

DDT
insecticides

formaldehyde
to preserve dead bodies

sulfuric acid
car batteries

cadmium
used to recharge batteries

freon
damages earth's ozone layer

geranic acid
a fragrance

methoprene
a pesticide

maltitol
a sweetener not permitted to be used in foods in the U.S.

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ITS TAKING SMOKERS RIGHTS
written by june bug , May 01, 2010

what happened to freedom of choice ??? how can they dictate where to ban smoking ?? if your an establishment owner it should be your choice if its smoking or not . they say smoking causes cancer so lets ban it . so what if it dose its our choice !! the sun causes cancer too so are the going to make it a law that you have to have clothing covering your skin and carry an umbrella during sun up to sun down?? the government is going to push us Americans to the point of no return and take back our country ..ENOUGH IS ENOUGH..

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piss on you!!!!!!
written by Safety Guy, May 01, 2010

I wish I had the original sign from my friend's apartment, from when we where young, but it went some thing like this....

You love smoking, the by-product of your cigarette is smoke, your smoke soaks into my clothing, my hair and skin.


I love beer, the by-product of my beer is urine, since your cigarette by-product is soaking into me, I'm sure you won't mind the by-product of my beer soaking you. So Pease defend your right to love to smoke by defending my love to drink beer by letting me soak you with my piss. Please defend my RIGHT'S, and the rights of all non-smokers, to piss on smokers.

Oh, by the way, if you don't want non-smokers pissing on you, just go to a non-pissing on smokers bar.

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The point is...
written by Our Rights, May 01, 2010

Whether you smoke or not this really isnt the point. Everyone should be upset over this, and no one is seeing the bigger picture (Save a few who have commented).

The more laws that the government creates, the more rights as Americans we lose. The government has seen this before with prohabition the 18th ammendment. You NON SMOKERS may now be able to enjoy an empty bar with out the hassle of smoke, but even you no longer have the right to choose to light up a ciggarette if you should desire.

The debate shouldnt be about who has the more ligit right, smokers or non smokers, it should be about OUR FREEDOM OF CHOICE, which we are losing because people only think about themselves. If anyone was truly worried about anything, they would set aside their differances and see that everyones rights are being taken away.

Eventually they are going to tax tanning beds which targets college students, who are already poor, then they'll impose a road tax, kind of like a toll on the Turn Pike, then a parking tax, and what ever else you can think of. This effects everyone, even as a non smoker your rights have been taken away as well. Didnt we fight a war with England because of Freedom of Religion, Speach, to Bear arms, Taxes? When are we going to stand up and say enough is enough?

Im sure no one complained when Geroge Washington stepped into a tavern and lit up one himeself. And all you non smokers sure dont complain when you drive home drunk.

ALL THIS COUNTRY DOES IS COMPLAIN ABOUT WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING. NO ONE DOES FOR ANYBODY ANYMORE. WE ARE ALL LOOKING FOR A REASON TO CALL A LAWYER AND MAKE THEM SOME MONEY, OR CALL A MANAGER AND COMPLAIN SO WE CAN GET A FREE MEAL. THIS IS A SELF SERVING SELFISH, SELFCENTERED COUNTRY, AND WE NEED TO START REALIZING THAT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME RIGHTS.

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Votes: +4

What Now?????
written by Concerned, May 01, 2010

I am a bar owner in a Detroit Sub. Business has suffered for three years. Tried it all folks, specials (where else can you get a beer for a buck?), entertainment, Keno, pull Tabs. Still slow. I'm taxed to hell, permit fees through the roof, product prices increasing..well, you get the picture. Now our fine state says "No Smoking". Oh, and the Health Department will enforce this law. If all bars were on the same playing field, I think we would take a hit, but shared equally. That will not be the case. There WILL be bars allowing smokers to light up. Smokers will flock to those bars. I don't know about other bar owners but I cannot afford the fines. So I will comply with a law that I had absolutly no say concerning it's content or enactment. I am not a smoker, never have been. I sense I will have to close the doors very soon. Thanks a bunch Michigan!

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Petition the MI state government
written by Justin from Cadillac, May 01, 2010

I say we draw up a petition for the state of Michigan. i have read through most of the responses both smokers and non-smokers agree that this new "law" violates our rights esp. our right to choose, choose weather or not we want to go to a smoking or non-smoking establishment. I'm up for a fight with good ol granholm when she is trying to force the wrong decisions on us, thank god she wont be in office much longer. any responses let me know.

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Votes: +6

no smoking
written by crystal , May 01, 2010

hey nolan hey dejia lol...!! i feel it shouldnt be smoking it kills peps and thats it.....!!!

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may 1st 2010
written by da, May 01, 2010

where are all the non-smokers ....... are you supporting your local tavern that you never went into heres your chance there smoke free now ..... 75 % i havent seen one today.........local bar owner

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Continued.........
written by Concerned, May 02, 2010

First day of the ban has ended. I had a few problems but not bad. Saturday night sales average is off quite a bit. Like I said in an earlier post, thanks to our legislators, I will have to close the doors. I don't believe there was much forethought put into this legislation. Not only will the local economy suffer, but the States’ economic condition will worsen. I spend all my revenue within the area of my business to support the local economy. It is not much, but I am not alone here.
I understand the health concerns of those sheep that believe second hand smoke is a danger. I also understand that smoking is, to some, a dirty offensive habit. However, it is a persons’ choice to smoke or not to smoke. And, it should be my choice as the owner of a Tavern to allow or disallow smoking of any tobacco product. I don’t patronize establishments that I don’t feel comfortable in. That could be for a number of reasons, including smoking, again, a choice.
So what is next? Limiting or banning fast food restaurants? Let’s control obesity because it too has an adverse impact on our health as a society.
Lastly, the fact that the County Health Departments were tasked with the enforcement is a joke. Short staffed to begin with. Bars and restaurants will NOT be treated equally. And therein lays the problem.
Have you all thought of this: how long will it be before the municipalities adopt the State Law as local ordinance so that the local police departments can issue violations of the smoking ban under their ordinance instead of state statute to increase their own revenues? I have seen this happen before. Many municipalities have adopted state statutes i.e. Motor Vehicle Code. The local PD issues the citation under the adopted ordinance instead of the state statute which results in fines being paid to the municipality. I see it coming.
I could be way off on that one but I don’t think so.
Thanks, Concerned

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written by da, May 02, 2010

tell us non smokers about your new experiences in the local mom and pa tavern owner operated trying to feed there kids and pay there employees and bills still waiting for the new found non smoking customers sales down about 50 % only smoking customers that of course comply so this great flow of new found non smoking customers can come in.....where are u

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switch it up
written by past smoker, May 02, 2010

instead of banning cigs in restaurants and bars where there smoke is focused in one area,allow it there and ban it outdoors where everyone has to smell it.I can pull up to a stop light and smell someones smoke five cars in front of me.keep it in your home or in your restaurants and bars where people like me have the choice to inhale your smoke or not.
And to all the Idiot's who voted obama, your getting just what you asked for,he's trying to bankrupt our nation since the day he stepped into office,bailing out car company's who were not selling cars in the first place,then bailing out the financing companys, do you people realize that he could have done two things to turn this nation around.if he took all the billions of bail out money and divided it between every US citizen, we would all be buying new cars and putting down payments on houses.
Or he could have started letting us drill all our own oil, gas and nuclear which would have created millions of jobs and we wouldn't be oil depended on foreign oil.The bail out money was our money, and now we and our children and grandchildren will be paying that back for years to come.
You will wake up one morning and we won't be called the United States Of America anymore,we'll probably be called something like little china.
Its time to wake up and see whats going on around us,
this nation was founded on Christian beliefs,
now they take it out of our schools and promote muslems and gay rights and sit around scratching ther heads wondering how all this happened.You have obama running over to the muslems bowing down kissing the dirt in front or them and saying he's sorry for America,We have nothing to be sorry for except our choice of president.There is such a thing as impeachment.
Then you have Granholm running around to all these other countries at our expense and so called trying to bring jobs back to Michigan.Then she comes back so proud because she found 200 jobs to come here, well mrs granholm, while you were out getting two hundred jobs, we were here losing two thousand jobs, nice job.whats scary is she's sucking up to obama trying to get a spot with him.It is time to take our nation back and put it back the way it was intended to, something you were proud of at one time.How many times have you called a plase of business and the first words you hear are spanish words then you hear someone say and for english press two.
I could go on and on but whats the use? No one cares anymore.

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...
written by da, May 02, 2010

ok ex smoker sound like your not out supporting your smoke free tavern are there any non smokers out there what did you do today to support your smoke free tavern.......

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Click it or Ticket - here we go again ! Boycott Casinos - Keno
written by Dave, May 03, 2010

It's just like the seat belt law, first we'll just make them install them itf you wantto use them. Then we can only ticket you if you have a moving violation.
Then CLICK OR TICKET !!! with an air bag in your face.
I say don't go to any Detroit Casinos for a couple months. I'm not going anywhere.. Boycott something every month. Maybe McDonalds - That food is as bad for you as smoking anyway. Was this fairly voted on by the people ? There were tons of non-smoking restraunts already - we needed the like a hole in the head. There are bigger problems..Unemployment , factories belching soke , oil spills , Volcanic ash ,earhquakes , wildfires .etc...Pea brains in Lansing ..

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Votes: +2

Wow
written by Our Rights, May 03, 2010

I just cant believe how ignorant some people are. You cant blame Obama on Bush's mess, non smokers are still going to go to the bar only once a month like they used to, and business are going to close down. Lets regulate everything, that way if you look at someone wrong you can get arrested, that way if you smell funny, you can get arrested. It doesnt matter whos in office Democrat or Republican, they're all politicians, and the people are who's losing. Just be ready when Religion is outlawed, or when they start to put chips in our bodies to prove citizianship. Its coming and thats when we have to stand together.

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written by Julie, May 03, 2010

Ok, We all know it's wrong. What are we going to do about it? Why aren't we all gathering together and protesting? When do we get out our petitions and start demanding this law be removed?
Any comments?

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written by Stacey, May 03, 2010

I do not feel that the bill was completely thought through. I completely understand non-smoking restaurants. However, there should have been guidelines or timeframes set in place for bars and bingo halls. Gee, let's get more small businesses to close in Michigan, and put more people out of work.

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written by Laura, May 03, 2010

I am a smoker. Don't smoke in my home or in my car or in restaurants when eating; Now I will no longer be smoking in the bars. Why go to a bar? I like to smoke and have a beer or two. I can drink beer for much less than $3.00 and smoke on my patio at home-unless, of course, the state decides at some point I can not do that.....And what is the deal with allowing the casinos to remain smoker friendly??? What was the rationale behind that one?? You should be ashamed of yourselves!!

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written by da, May 03, 2010

great no non smoking customers.....and all there talk... and my smoking customers are staying home and guess who stuck in the middle not the detroit casinos ......but the small business owner the lamb throw out to be eating by the wolfs....

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written by da, May 03, 2010

I have just visited GoPetition and found the following page very interesting:

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stop-smoking-ban-in-michigan-taverns.html

Regards

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Easy fix to this problem
written by Matt, May 04, 2010

In 2007 the total school aid was $13.1 billion 41% of cigarette tax went to the school aid fund. So the easy solution to this problem is that we all write the major tobacco companies and ask them to boycott selling all tobacco products in Michigan until they change the laws. With that amount of money missing from Michigan's budget they will change the laws real fast.

Philip Morris USA:

Phone
Consumer Response Center:
800-343-0975
Monday-Sunday, 9 a.m.-10 p.m. (ET)

Mail
Philip Morris USA
Attention: Quality Department
PO Box 18583
Pittsburgh, PA 15236


or email them from here:
http://www.pmusa.com/en/cms/contact_us/default.aspx

R.J. Reynolds:

1-800-341-5211

http://www.rjrt.com/

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The whole concept of America, was established from tobacco!
written by America!, May 04, 2010

Look in the history books how important tobacco was. Were turning third world, with our idiot law makers.

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written by Safety Guy, May 05, 2010

All the non-pissing on smokers bars are doing as well as the screw the non-smokers bars. oh i ur confused look back at the posts

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written by Safety Guy, May 05, 2010

sorry, not i, shoould have typed if

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written by Safety Guy, May 05, 2010

yes i know i spelled should wrong, someone blew smoke in my eyes, f-ing smoking pick

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written by Safety Guy, May 05, 2010

Oh, BTW, i went to a bar today, and managed to not piss on smokers, you smoker seem to be doing well without smoking, ur even kind of nice, when ur not blowing smoke at me

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written by Had Enough, May 05, 2010

Well, so far business is down 50% since the smoking law came into action. Our bar in the suburbs hasnt seen all the non smokers turn out to make up any difference in loss of revenue. Watch the unemployment climb as some of the people already effected are cut loose. Some examples are, the vending companies for the cigarette machine, the smoke eater companies, the company that serviced the smoke eaters.Now think about business slowing down....that means less servers, bartenders, cooks etc.. Smaller menus, spending less with food and beer suppliers.There is only so much to cut, lets face it..its not getting cheaper to operate this type of business.A bad economy, tougher drinking and driving laws were already knocking business down. Now this? Great idea Michigan.Maybe the bar owners should pull the plug on keno and pulltabs! Let Michigan get its precious revenue from the casinos.To Da, The non smokers didnt show up here either! This is a recipe for disaster, why pass this law? Especially at a time with this economy.Why are the casinos exempt? Keno and pulltabs are gambling right? Also Da, your right, the ones paying the price are the small business ownwers. I'm off to look for that petition.

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Pursuit of Happiness... apparently only means happinesses They approve of.
written by Dawn Papple, May 07, 2010

I think it falls under the right to pursue happiness. Given that a restuarant is owned not by the governement, but rather by indiviuals, those individuals should be able to create the setting for those restaurants that they OWN. There are many smoke free establishments people could have chosen to go to. It makes no sense to hear people say they shouldn't have to breathe the air. Nobody forced anybody into establishments that allowed smoking. There were many smoke free options. In fact though, they did not even allow for a smoker's bar... though the yuppies in Lansing, certainly made dang sure they were entitled to thier cigar bars... though they also made sure you can't smoke cigarettes at them. If something is publicly owned, then certainly, there should be no smoking. But the places in question are privately owned establishments that noone is forcing anyone into.

It doesn't make much difference to me, I never worked the bar or cocktail in my job at the bar. I feel awfully bad for those girls that do though, because it's been a barren wasteland in those sections because it was full of regulars every day, and those regulars are smokers.

I guess it doesn't matter, a quarter of Michigan is already unemployed, what's a few thousand more cocktail servers loosing all their income?


I think things that directly affect citizens to this extend, (being their pursuit of hapiness rights) should go before polls. But as far as law making works: Look at how easy it was to bend the rules with the healthcare reform bill. Lawmakers can get around anything with their loopholes if they want it to suit thier needs.

Also, as far as voting ... for people, that's where politics blow. They will run on a certain platform, to get voted in and then vote however they want, ignoring the letters and pleas of their own constituants. Obama said he was going to pull us out of Iraq immediately, in fact there's more of our people there than ever before. In addition, with president, I think Bush proved quite nicely, with the electoral college that the majority actually means nothing in regards to us being a true democracy.

Loopholes, everywhere.


Let's just hope, in regards to pursuing happiness for everyone SO stoked about going to the bar now that it's smoke free that the next law passed doesn't require servers to administer a breathalizer prior to each drink served. After all, the law states you can't be above .08 in the bar, even if you're walking.

My health suffers because of the manufacturing of plastic. What happens if the next law states that no more medically unneccessary plastics are allowed to be manufactured. I for one, feel it's in the best interests of my children's health that we see a drastic decline of plastics, I'm sure I feel this as strongly as my desire to not have them around second hand smoke... as feverishly as anyone hates smoking, I hate plastics. What happens when someone like me gets it into their head that they want to ban all nonmedically needed plastic maufacturing. No more plastic toys. Plastic toys may me a way for some people's happiness, but not mine. IN fact, it poses great health risks to me in it's manufacturing. What if they just go ahead and pass that into a law without a vote.

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Pursuit of happiness... cont.
written by Dawn Papple, May 07, 2010

Many people are allergic, severely, to peanut butter. They can't be in a room with it. Shall we ban peanut butter in public as well?

If I were a lawmaker, and I didn't care about our economy or people's choices or their right to pirsue happiness and live how they choose, I'd try to pass a law that said we'd ban plastics in our state. Because that's something I hate. And when I presented the law, I'd be smart about it and load extras in their to bait others to pass the law. I'd throw in some irrevlevant parts as a bribe that my fellow lawamakers want like no smoking in public places or I'd earmark dollars at random to special interest groups and maybe toss in a couple of salary increases into the wording of the law at the end.

THEN, here's another thing I'd do. (If I didn't give a crap about economy or people's rights to pursue happiness.) Whether people want to face the fact or not, disposable diapers actually endanger the health of our babies because of the sodium polyactrilate. It gets into little girls little girl parts and dries them up, theire is also serious implications on fertility of such a strong chemical, so I'd outlaw disposables in our state. I don't really care about people and how they WANT to raise their children, because I'm a lawmaker and I happen to know for a fact that it's unhealthy. So I'd do the same things for this law to make sure it passes.

I'd FOR SURE try to pass the breathalizer test because after all, there's not even a drunk driving and non drunk driving secion of the roads to choose from (like there was smoking restaurants and non smoking restaurants) and I want to ensure my safety on the roads.

Next, I'd pass a law that regulates how a person heats and cools tehir house. Afterall, there is a finite amount of fuel and heating and cooling is the largest factor in energy consumption. In the summer, you may not turn your air on until the tempurature reaches 95 in the winter, no heat until it's below 65 in your house.

I'd also like to see all energy use go completely green. WHat with the gulf oil spill, I think it's timely to give people two years to completely weed themselves off of fossil fuels. We can then only use wind and solar power. Even water is too disruptive to the ecosystems. If hat's not enough, then I suppose they will have to come up with more alternatives and start allotting each citizen with a maxium alllowance of energy each year. That should curb the waste.

Anyway, do you see what I'm saying? Do you see where this could lead? These are only MY preferences. Perhaps someone else's preferences will be something else something more dangerous, like using GPS systems or other privacy invasive tactics to create a new order for America.

In the healthcare reform bill, the president was given a new policing department for god and the powers that be only know. What that has to do with healthcare is beyond me, but that's how lawmaking works.

It may seem dramatic for me to state, but America, and what it stood for is gone now. And we are sheep being lead in a direction that we don't even realize where personal liberties and freedoms will be infringed upon.

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

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Want to make the BIG Government pay attention?
written by Karen, May 08, 2010

As an employee I am paid by my employer to uphold a certain company standard. AS A LAW ABIDING TAX PAYING AMERICAN.I demand the same from my employees ALL 535 of those assholes in WASHINGTON.The peaceful solution?
CHECK EXEMPT on your W-2's.
Refuse to pay "YOUR" employees until they do the JOB YOU
want them to do. WAKE UP AMERICANS

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written by Courtney, May 09, 2010

I am a bartender and this smoking ban has taking a huge toll on my business. I think this smoking ban is a bunch of BS and should be revoked. Who has the right to tell you what you can and can not do! You don't go into a bar for your health, obviously because you are drinking. Yes alot of people have died from lung cancer but how many people have died because of drunk drivers or from OD-ing on booze? Im sorry but just like sky diving you know the risk if you don't want to do it or be around it then don't go into a freaking bar! The government is taking to many of our so called "freedoms" away, as American people we need to over throw the government. It says right in the constitution that if at anytime the government is going agaisnt the constitution then the American people have the right to throw them out and start over. Everything that was once fought for is now being destoryed. There is going to be a revolution soon and there is nothing that anyone can do to stop it. When the American people have had enough of the goverment prying into our lives and telling us what we can and can not do people will take action and thats just what needs to happen!

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Casinos
written by BJ in Bay City, May 11, 2010

I believe the casinos are owned and operated by Native Americans...TRIBAL SOVEREIGNTY.

I waste enough money on smoking and drinking,
I can't afford to go to the casinos.

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WAKE UP AMERICA
written by lindystar, May 13, 2010

Once again, the right-eous are here! Telling everyone what they can and can't do, big business government, health care, insurance companies, all are put fear in the hearts and minds of all people. I got a great one for all of you so called do gooders, that believe in lies! The attached is the real truth since 1990's so I think you better start finding your own truth instead of listening to the big companies, you take the magic pills everyday, funny you can even instantly die? but you keep taking the chance and want to blame others for what? So, here you go:
From:stagon.org
your body's largest organ, absorbs fragrance chemicals by direct application, by contact with fragranced items, and by exposure to air containing fragrances. Today's fragrances make you think they are made from flowers and fragranced products provide constant source of fragrance chemicals, that are absorbed by your skin and inhaled as vapors. Did you know that 95% of the chemicals in fragrances are synthetic compounds derived from petroleum . Many of the chemicals in perfumes are the same chemicals in cigarette smoke, and yet there are no regulation of the fragrance industry. A study by Greenpeace in 2005 discovered that at least 36 well-known perfume brands contained two toxic man-made chemicals "phthalate esters and synthetic musk." It is not acute poisoning, but it is chronic, it stays in the system and accumulates in the fatty tissues of living organisms. Phthalates have a bad effect on the DNA, male sperm and restricts lung function in men. Synthetic musk can attack living tissues. The names of the perfumes, some of them very famous names can be checked on the website: toxic perfumes

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Sensible Smoking Laws in Florida
written by Karen Scaramuzzino, May 14, 2010

As a social smoker, I just returned from a trip to Florida where they have a smoking law implemented that actually makes sense. You can smoke on all outdoor patios and balconies (food service or not) if the owner of the establishment allows you to do so. I was able to have dinner in the restaurant and relax outside with a drink at a table and not have to stand in some alley or parking lot. There is no smoking allowed in indoor bars and restaurants that serve food. However, bar owners can choose not to serve food and allow their customers to smoke. There were actual choices for business owners, smokers and non smokers alike. The Michigan law needs to relaxed a bit so there are choices. But Granholm missed the mark on this one - what timing! Like the economy in this state wasn't bad enough. I wish there were something we could do to amend this law a bit so that not everyone suffers for it.

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just shaking my head over all of it.
written by kathi, May 15, 2010

Dawn, you said a lot of what i have been thinking. we as Americans are loosing our freedoms. the things the founders of this country were willing to die for. we are loosing them SO QUICKLY. and all because "others" have put their desires and what they consider their "better opinion" over "the rest of the people"..
Yes, i am a smoker. but i DO take into consideration "others" around me. i have NEVER blown smoke into anyone's face,etc. but i HAVE had young kids look at me. and say. YOU are SO STUPID. or GO DIE somewhere else. WHAT HAPPENED to THIS COUNTRY? i am darn near sixty. RESPECT for your ELDERS? nope. it's all SELFISHNESS.
I have also been to Florida. and Ohio. and both states have CONSIDERATION for the smoker. be it outside patio bars/eateries. hotel smoking rooms. smoking permitted in private clubs. etc. SOME consideration. Michigan. NONE. absolutely NONE. unless ofcourse you are gambling on the casino floor. WHAT is THAT???
how REDICULOUS does Michigan look IF people really research. we have LEGALIZED medical marijuana. So. ok. let me get this straight. the bar on the corner. i can't smoke in.. or near. ok. BUT less than fifty feet away is a MARIJUANA CLUB and YES YOU CAN smoke the "funny stuff" there. HUH? NOW THAT is INSANE. cigarettes. legal. pot. illegal. can't smoke the cigs. but you CAN smoke the pot. WHAT am i missing here? SAME parking lot by the way.
AND let us now discuss our TOURISM industry. we have already now seen the upcoming demise of the local bars. ok most of the bars. etc. but TOURISM. It is my understanding that there are now NOOOO "smoking" hotel/motel. etc rooms in Michigan. The "sisters weekend" trip to Mackinaw. well hotel advised us. NO smoking rooms. NO smoking within ONE HUNDRED FEET of the building. but it's ok to smoke in your car. HUH? nope. NOT going on the yearly trip this year. I guesse the "Pure Michigan" ads mean that SMOKERS are NOT welcome. PERIOD. and how many jobs will be lost over THAT decision?
IF i HAD the bucks. i would be MOVING. Florida. even with my sister in law. is looking MUCH BETTER than Michigan. sad. and HOW MANY OTHERS that DO have the bucks to MOVE are pondering the same choices?
our governor doesn't really CARE any more. after all. she is a "lame duck" she is now on HER agenda. Yup. she got to travel the WORLD. and yes. the few jobs she "secured" were NOTHING compared to the jobs Michigan LOST. and NOW we are loosing MORE. our local state rep.. gleason i think it is. ACTUALLY SAID. HE DIDN'T CARE about smokers whining about their "rights".. cuz he was tired of paying our medical bills. ah PARDON me? i am personally VERY WEARY of paying "the bills of others" the "sandbaggers" those "call now to get your free cell phone cuz you are on foodstamps and heah. COME ONNNN DOWNNNN!!!" I don't HAVE a cell phone. it is NOT in my budget. BUT. ahh. my phone company tacks on two bucks a month to pay for "the cell phones of others". WHAT IS THIS???
THE BOTTOM LINE is they WANT our "cigarette taxes" and our property taxes, and our extra phone bill taxes, etc etc. but THEY DON'T WANT US as SMOKERS. just OUR MONEY.
i LOVE the boycott the Keno IDEA. you GOOO bar owners. THAT ONE is in YOUR hands. pick a day. ANY day. heck we ALL KNOW those bucks DON'T go to the schools anyway.

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re: sensible smoking in Florida
written by justathought, May 16, 2010

Yes, the STATE of MI dropped the ball on this one. The Florida law works and everyone (well almost everyone) is happy or can live with it. Rights have not been stripped from the business owners, clubs, individuals, and even the non-smokers are okay with it. There is a right way to approach a situation and a wrong way. The Michigan smoking ban law needs to be re-visited, by petition and ammendment.
We have a lot of out of way, Honky-Tonk bars that will not survive the onslaught of this nonsense and they are NEVER going to draw the non-smoking family cliental that this ban was designed to pamper. Let's face it....one size does not fit all. PS...I ask again "would you rather have a person drive you home that has had 5 drinks OR 5 cigarettes?" I just cannot comprehend this logic! And for goodness sake, give the VETS an exemption if nothing else. Lots of them do not even serve food and they are private members only. Let them make their own decsions, they are not children, they are fully grown adults that wish to be treated as such!!

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Again?
written by Prohibition?, May 18, 2010

To all of you who support this smoking ban, please take a look at our constitution and why it way established in the first place. Our government is becoming to strong and forcing us to do things one way, whether we agree or not. Prohibition did not work in our country, why would this?
My concerns about this ban have nothing to do with smoking but rather with our rights and how they are being stomped out! I can think of many things that are worse for people then smoking like poverty, child abuse, crime to name only a few, maybe we should concentrate a little more on these.

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What the law DOES and DOES NOT require
written by Michael J. McFadden, May 18, 2010

The law itself is VERY clear: Businesses are *NOT* required to act as actual law enforcers in any sense, and do *NOT* have to physically eject smokers from their premises or call authorities unless they desire to.

Contrary to the irresponsible impression given in the article, the law does *NOT* authorize private citizens to act as vigilantes in any sense of the word, nor does it force business people into indentured servitude as unpaid and untrained police.

Businesses *ARE* required to *POST* no smoking signs, *REMOVE* fire-safety equipment (ashtrays), *INFORM* individuals smoking that they are in violation of state law and subject to penalties.", *ASK* the smoker to refrain from smoking, in the case of food drink establishments refuse to give further service to an individual *WHILE* that individual is smoking. and finally if the individual continues to smoke *ASK* them to leave... not throw them out.

Read the law itself: it's short and simple and I am not misrepresenting what it says.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2009-2010/billenrolled/House/pdf/2009-HNB-4377.pdf

There may be a lot of smoking going on in a lot of bars around Michigan once bar owners realize this.

Michael J. McFadden
Author of "Dissecting Antismokers' Brains"

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smoking is now for sidewalks
written by da, May 18, 2010

I love irrate phone calls at 1am telling me to tell my smokers to go inside there making too much noise. oh my god and they swear.....i would love to tell my 95% of my customers they could come inside and smoke with there drink but instead i now get to make sure they dont walk out with there drink whoops i get the fine and micheal it is the law and if i as a bar owner do not obey the law i loose my license so read the part in the liq laws and how they could fine me for not obeying the law.

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To the bar owner:
written by Michael J. McFadden, May 19, 2010

If you read the law and read what I wrote above you'll see that they agree. The law is very clear: you do NOT have to actually throw smokers out of your bar unless you want to. Courts have ruled on this in NY and Ohio where bar owners simply followed the letter of the law and found in favor of those bar owners. Show the law and my analysis to a lawyer (I'll freely admit that I'm not a lawyer.) and I think he/she will agree. - MJM

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smoking ban
written by kitkat, May 21, 2010

Most people agree that drinking and driving is wrong..and there are laws against it. But, there are still a few that think that smoking in public, and inflicting deadly gasses of smoke upon innocent people should be allowed. There is little difference; both can cause death. And yeh,I know everyone who smokes knows an uncle that mosked and lived till he was 90, so what. That is not the norm. We we do affects other people whether we like it or not. And, loss of productivity by people who miss work due to lung issues, be it COPD or cancer, cost all of us money; you need to look at the big picture. Of course the Repubs generally represent big money corporations, so of course they don't wantot loose money when you finally quit. I quit many years ago, I was lucky, and I pity all those that are stuck with this addiction.

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polite
written by the U.P., May 21, 2010

Honestly... the polite thing to do would have been for people to step outside to smoke a long time ago. Just for the fact to be kind to others. There really shouldn't have to be a law for that. I understand that it is not an easy thing to quit... especialy when your drinking. But it besides the health factors, which I believe should be the main emphasis, it should be about getting along. People say... "well if you don't like smoking then don't go to the bar". Well... come on!!! Lets just be nice to one another and try not to embark on each others comfort. I'm sure we all can agree that it is a nasty habit. It stinks awful. And causes health issues. I agree that the government shouldn't get so crazy on us... but damn... we should have done a lot of these things on our own.

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Smoking Ban
written by Qasim Abbas, May 22, 2010

I don't believe that the state mandate on smoking is a bad thing. I don't smoke, and going to bars where and restaurants with heavy second hand smoke can be unbearable. I also believe that this would help the state in the long run - as this ban discourages residents to smoke less, improve their health, so state expenditures on treating devastating diseases such as lung cancer and other related epidemics is curtailed.

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freetosmoke
written by meowcat, May 27, 2010

Cigarettes should not be taxed. Neither should anthing else for that matter. I can remember when cany bars were 45cents-and at a gas station at that! I am not that old, but now candy bars are at least a dollar now-at that same gas station. Instead of making laws that actually do a damn thing they have to sit around and screw us the people over

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...
written by Jan, June 08, 2010

Way to go Michigan

Our unemployment rate is almost 15% and our economy sucks but we just helped it out again.
I spend about 3 to 4 nights a month in Michigan hotels. I prefer to drive the night before and spend the night in a hotel so I arrive at my destination fresh in the morning, but no more. I will get up early and drive before I pay for the privacy of a hotel room that I can’t smoke in. I will also discontinue my vacations in northern Michigan and head south instead.

It also amazes me that Michigan prefers to have 4 or 5 people standing in a parking lot smoking with cigarettes butts covering the ground then in the privacy of a smoking room that they don’t have to go into or see.

If you think this is going to encourage me to quite smoking, you are wrong. I used to me very considerate of non smokers but I will also change that. They can walk through my smoke and I will no longer care. I will stand the required distance from the building but I will no longer move out of the way so they don’t have to walk through my smoke. I will give the Michigan residents the consideration they have given to me and all of the other smokers.

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...
written by smoke, June 09, 2010

the smoking ban is just another way for the goverment to run our lives

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Profits post Smoking ban
written by Bar Owner, June 17, 2010

I am a smoker and a bar owner in SE Michigan and was deeply concerned with the possible lose of revenue after the smoking ban took affect. The smoking ban has been in place for a month now and my profits compared to the same 30 days in 09 are up just short of 40%. I hope this trend continues! I have a bunch of regular customers who are smokers who complain about the new law to me when we are outside having a smoke. I always tell them, there not saying you can't smoke there just saying you can't force non smokers to be subject to our habit. I personally choose to smoke, but that doesn't mean I have the right to force someone else to be affected by it. I don't want to be told when and where I can smoke, but in all honesty, if my habit affects someone other than me then I see the logic in it. If it is against the law to get drunk and drive my car because I might hurt or kill someone, then smoking is no different, it just takes longer to do the damage and you can't finger the blame to one person. I think the seat belt and helmet laws are more ridiculous because by not conforming you endanger nobody but yourself. All and all I don't like it but in all honesty I understand it.

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...
written by Terri, July 11, 2010

As a non-smoker, I stopped going to bars and restaurants years ago, because of the smell and because I had problems breathing for days after I had been there. Restaurants with smoking sections were no better. As the saying goes, having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a pee-ing section in a pool. It just doesn't work. I'm sorry for all the people who are addicted to smoking, but at the same time, I'm excited about the opportunity to try out some of establishments that I could never go into, before, because of the smoke. I have just been waiting for the smoke to clear (I've found the toxins take months to clear from a place that was formerly occupied by smokers - I guess the smoke must be trapped in the wall coverings and carpeting, so I just have to be patient about going in).

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all about choices
written by hm1hm2, August 02, 2010

I am a non smoker and hate the smell. however I do not believe the govt has the right to tell business owners how to run their establishments in terms of all that is legal (which tobacco is). if i go to a place and its too smoky i dont go back plain and simple. Just as if i dont like their food or service i wont go back. its all the same. I personally like not having smokers around but feel bad for business owners whose clientelle relied on that. Not the govt place to decide.

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unreasonably severe
written by Bob, August 12, 2010

I don't understand why, if preventing cancer is the State's rationale, the smoking ban doesn't extend to car exhaust as well -- or any activity that exposes people to cancer-causing agents. How about the same standards for automobiles, which are a thousand times more destructive for the environment, more pervasive, and spew toxins that are more deadly than second-hand cigarette smoke?

Also, the ban is unnecessarily severe. It is possible to accommodate smokers in a way that allows everyone to exercise his or her own discretion and choice-making, without exposing non-consenting non-smokers to second-hand smoke. Aware of the dangers, people should be able to choose where they work and what they do with their own bodies -- such as drive a car, or patronize or consent to work in a smoking environment. There are ways to accommodate all of these choices without going to the most severe one of a ban -- IF what people are actually looking for is a solution.

But I think the real issue here is indignation, which people love to feel and express. The extra severity in the ban is an expression of indignation, a little voice of "How dare you!", which makes everyone feel better about themselves while ignoring other, more complex and disastrous issues. For example, if you care about cancer rates among human beings, why not put your indignant energy to work curbing air pollution in a place like Metro Manila or Phnom Penh, places where it is really needed? Why not punish the corporations and manufacturers who are responsible for actually poisoning millions of people on a daily basis -- people who are more vulnerable and less able to make decisions about their own lives? That seems like a better project if anti-smoking advocates are being honest about their values.

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Quitting smoking is the intelligent thing to do.
written by Art's Easy Way Stop Smoking, August 28, 2010

I've seen quite a few comments on here that try to make this a political issue of right vs. left, or socialistic in nature. Really folks, this is not a political issue, nor is it a matter of the few pushing their beliefs on the many. It is a matter of those who wish to breathe fresh are to defend themselves against those who willfully pollute not only their own lungs but the lungs of others who wish to remain healthy.

Smokers can moan and groan all day about their rights while ignoring the rights of others. Being a Libertarian, I'm particularly sympathetic to the individual's rights, but the right to smoke does not give the smoker the right to interfere in the rights of non smoker's who wish to exercise their right to breathe clean air.

Similar laws have been working in many other states across the country and smoker's rights to pollute their own lungs in their own homes and on their own property not being abridged.

I do find a few idiotic points in this particular law, but on the whole, it isn't a question of big government taking away your rights. It's still illegal to commit suicide and to commit murder in nearly every state. Smoking is just a very slow form of suicide and murder, but smokers seem oblivious to that fact.

I was oblivious to the needs of non smokers for 18 years before it finally sunk in that I was causing all kinds of harm to my children and everyone else that I was forcing to breathe my particular poison.

I understand how difficult it is to quit smoking, and that is the principle reason most smokers object to any and all anti-smoking laws. If that's what's making you upset with this law, then find an easy method to quit smoking. Besides, think of how much money you'll save if you do.

If you need help, then go to http://easywaystopsmoking.org

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omg
written by paul, September 02, 2010

look it should be the right of a buisness owner to govern his or her place of buisness not goverment THATS THE BOTTEM LINE!!!!!!If a buisness has made the decision to allow smokeing GO TO ONE THAT DOES'NT.Thats how it should be do you drink do you walk across the street to get to the other side do you eat,is it healthy be carefull you might choke!!!!all these things could kill you but you choose to do them because youve been given free will not by state but by god.all you idiots that are for this band are so stupid,you just dont see the big picture.

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